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| | #1 |
| IWT Moderator Bum Contributor Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 337
![]() | Hello everyone After many years of using different methods and programs for link exchanges I am working on creating my own When you have a PageRank 4 or more domain you really dont want to exchange with lower PR sites do you? There are many programs out there where you must be a PR3+ domain to join such as www.build-reciprocal-links.com however you will find that your back-links end up being on subpages with at most a PR3 So i am currently working on an exchange system where only PR4 or more domains may be included and the script must be placed on no less than a PR4 page. This would be a human edited program where only domains that we as a group decide can be included. Allready i have a couple people interested in joining. There would be no 3way linking to 0PR domains, only those that were excepted by us as a whole. No paid inclusion either. The actual program itself is almost complete however i would like some feedback about this? Anything that should be included ? what shouldnt ? who would be interested in such a program ? This thread is for feedback only about this system. thanx |
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| | #2 |
| Junior Guru Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Canada
Posts: 663
![]() ![]() | I would be interested. I have joined many link-exchanges and some of them as You pointed either include way too many useless or simply nasty (porn, gambling, etc) websites or I have to manually choose out of many sites that request links (which of course is very time consuming). |
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| | #3 |
| iWEBTOOL SEO Advisor Contributor Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 675
![]() ![]() | Depending on how this system works, it could be good or disatrous. The script that you speak of, does it autolink? ie someone joins the system, is added to the list, and appears across a raft of sites? IF this is the case then you are building a link farming script and you could all get banned (as was the case with Traffic power and all their clients) Can you tell us some more about this?
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| | #4 |
| IWT Moderator Bum Contributor Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 337
![]() | No, This system is designed so only the admin can apove sites to be listed. All domains would need to be aproved by all current users and the actual links would need to be placed on a PR4+ page I know the system u are thinking of but this is not it. U see most AUTO Link exchange programs require that you place a file on your server that basically stats a new page on your site. Problem is it starts with a PR0 I was with www.build-reciprocal-links.com for 2 years on a particular domain and although they require u to be a PR3 domain to join, once u upload there Auto link directory file your links page starts at a PR0 2Years lator the highest PR backlink from a huge list is a 3 this is outa thousands of sites, linked to me. There system may have worked however they started allowing people to buy inlusion into there system, so now u see like 90% PR0 backlinks The system im working on would not allow this, if someone wanted to manually add a backlink to there site , thats up to them. In no way would paid inclusion be allowed or tolerated in this system.. Rule #1 very simple: Page in which links to apear MUST be a minumum PR4 |
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| | #5 |
| Junior Guru Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Canada
Posts: 663
![]() ![]() | I use BRL as well, but I get pages that are up to PR 6. I do have to sort manually through them as some people cheat and put their link in twice and I get rid of any site that is under PR3. It's really time consuming though. I am gonna start canceling some of those programs, but I am getting some text ads in exchange though. It's more expensive, but at least I am sure where and what. |
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| | #6 |
| iWEBTOOL SEO Advisor Contributor Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 675
![]() ![]() | HI Richard, please forgive my questions, I just want to get it clear in my head ![]() So do people add a piece of script to their page? And then what happens? is this the same code on a lot of pages? So say for example 20 people join up, and they all place the code on their pages. Will each of those 20 pages carry links to ALL the other 19? Forgive the question I am just trying to understand it honestly I am not trying to decry your system. but it is a REALLY fine line between a link system and a link farm.
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| | #7 |
| IWT Moderator Bum Contributor Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 337
![]() | No need to be sorry for your question, how my system works is similar to a reciprical link dir.. Im asuming u know how these work You would fill out a form where u give ur email and homepage as well as the page in which ur links will be located. Then of course the system would check before finalizing the process to make sure the HTMl code with the links has been added. My system would basically give an HTML code for all current users domain in the code and would check periodically check to make sure all people within the system have links to all other members.. There is no php script or java just strate HTML . Once a person sighns up all members would recieve an email in which it would be checked by all to check authenticity.. Also if a member removes even 1 link the system would detect and email all members to remove that link immediatly. its no different than a regular link exchage, between sites however there is an automated checking system with notification.. doing it this way u remain 100% safe and within googles guidlines. Oh did i mention that the system also checked to make sure the pages with links are at least PR4 or more.. i hope this helps A simple example is this if u go to my link exchange in my sig "u dont need to link to me this is just an e example" u see how when u click join it shows u what to put on ur page to link to me .. well instead of just my 1 sigle link it would contain everyones link This same prog also checks to make sure it was not alterd in any way the link in my sig is not the program in question just an example |
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| | #8 | |
| iWEBTOOL SEO Advisor Contributor Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 675
![]() ![]() | HI Again Richard, I fully understand how a reciprocal link directory works, I've been around for a while now ![]() Having read your post I am now even more concerned as it is looking more and more like a link farm of old. Can you please answer this one simple question (that I asked in my previous post)? Quote:
Because if this is an automated link system in this manner then I am sure you know that it is NOT within the Google guidelines and will likely eventually get all the sites either penalised or filterd. I guess the simple line is if multiple sites are carrying the same set of links on identical pages then they are link farming. Reciprocal directories are handled purely by the site owners in question. there is no automated broadcast of links across a network. It is this methodology that concerns me. For the record, I am a seasoned SEO, I have worked on projects with some of the top most respected sEO's in the world like Jill Whalen of High Rankings & Kim Kraus (crea8asite). I have worked on sites as like Norwich Union in the UK, and Adobe.inc in the US so I really do know my stuff. I am telling you this so that you will know I am not just some clown who is trying to be awkward and pick holes in your system. ![]()
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| | #9 |
| IWT Moderator Bum Contributor Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 337
![]() | First i would like to thank you for your honesty and bluntness on this issue as that exacly what im looking for. Pick holes all you want as i would only want to put up the best possible system. as it would be in everyones benefit ... I see what your saying kinda. first no link would be added in a directory. 1 question for you ? If 20 people added PHP Code: to a page on there site would this be ok ? Of course it would right ? its a simple text link Now if people added PHP Code: to there page would this be a link farm ? All my system would do is check to insure that all people that signed up would have everyone elses link the above is an example of the code that u would be told to put on ur page. When signing up. Yes if there were 20 people wthin the this system the system would email u and require u put in all the links There would be no link dir with everyones links so google would not no that the system exist I dont think if say 20 sites had the exact same link like above it would be considered a link farm. Its just simple back linking .. The system would not feed the urls to ur site. its basically a notification system hey i think this is my 100th post ![]() |
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| | #10 |
| iWEBTOOL SEO Advisor Contributor Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 675
![]() ![]() | The classic definition of a link farm is that you plant your link and it grows across the web. The very earliest link farms worked where you got approved, then your link got posted across everyones websites who was in the 'farm'. Here is the definition of a link farm from Wikipedia ----------------------------------------- Link farm From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia On the World Wide Web, a link farm is any group of web pages that all hyperlink to every other page in the group. ---------------------------------------- Unless I am mistaken that is exactly what your system does. a classic link farm. Sorry to rain on your parade, but I really don't want people wandering into balck hat with their eyes closed ![]() For this to work ideally you could control the quality of the links, then give people the OPTION of adding their link to their pages. There are two problems here (apart from the link farming aspect. 1. Quality of link partner 2. Quality of link. You are controling the quality of the partner, but the second item, the quality of link must be controlled by the site owners. The web is moving more and more towards semantic linking algorithms, so linking to off topic pages is eventually going to start harming your site (as opposed to not benefitting which is where we are going at the moment). Just because a page has a certain PR value, it doesn't mean it is going to benefit all the sites in the ring. On topic linking is worth more than 20 or 30 off topic links , if not more.
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| | #11 |
| iWEBTOOL SEO Advisor Contributor Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 675
![]() ![]() | Added > I just realised I did not answer your questions If 100 people put up a single link to a site then of course that would be OK. That said, if they all had the same anchor text, and the site previously had only one or two backlinks, then it would raise a flag at google as being an un-natural linking pattern, same with yahoo. MSN doesn't give a damn ![]() Your second example makes it EASIER for the algorithms to detect. Y! & Google use clustering methodology as part of their algorithms. Google has specific anti spam algorithms that it runs. You have probably read google stating 'do not link to bad neighbourhoods' (although they probably spelled it in American) Have you ever wondered what a neighbourhood is, and more importantly HOW a neighbourhood is built by the search engines? Neighbourhoods are built by clustering. Clustering is a simple system that analyses link data. Ok so we have your identical link pages (by identical I mean LINK WISE, not content wise. Clustering is ALL about links and ignores everything else like content. when I mention duplicate pages with regard links, I mean duplicate in link footprint.) As part of clustering, sites are identified called hubs and authorities. Hubs are sites that link to a large volume of sites within their cluster , authorities are sites that get linked TO by lots of sites in the cluster. The theory behind this is that clusters of sites that are formed naturally will all be on topic, because THAT is how the web works, we link to relevant pages. In the case of a link farm, odd patterns appear (un-natural linking patterns). The Algorithm will pick this up, and call upon the spam algo to check the cluster out. The instant this happens, the algo will pick up that 20 sites are all linking to each other with identical pages with identical text, and BANG. you will ALL get banned. I cited the case of Traffic Power in another post. but to confirm the seriousness of this I would like to cite a page from a blog by Matt Cutts (a senior Google engineer and the guy who thought up and built Froogle /google products). http://www.mattcutts.com/blog/confirming-a-penalty/ Don't get me wrong, there is absolutely no problem with helping other webmasters locate on topic links. The crime (in the eyes of the search engine) is un-natural linking. Richard (hope it is Ok to call you that). Natural linking would be me joining my site about Farming to your system, browsing your system, and adding links to other farming sites in other countries, links to animal vet practices, links to ANYTHING related to animals or farming. THAT would be natural linking with a helping hand from your system. Perfectly ok in my book, and also with the search engines, as ALL you are now doing is bringing together people who are looking to improve the relevancy of their site by linking to related sites online. Hope that explains things better, and sorry for the length of the posts ![]()
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| | #12 |
| IWT Moderator Bum Contributor Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 337
![]() | Allright so what would be the best possible way to do what were looking for then? I also have a copy of Altasoft Text Link Exchange. Can this in any way be alterd to give us the desired result? |
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| | #13 |
| iWEBTOOL SEO Advisor Contributor Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 675
![]() ![]() | The easiest way would be to have a script that allows people to add links through choice. It really is a shaky road having an automatic exchange system as if it is reported to Google as spam, then it will get investigated manually, and could end up getting all the sites penalised.
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| | #14 |
| IWT Moderator Bum Contributor Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 337
![]() | How would u rate www.build-reciprocal-links.com ?? Would this be considerd spam ? I have revised my original program as i think u were right about it ... My revised copy is similar to the above program. I have a working copy of the program in action here www.rsswhatis.com there is a link in the menu that takes u to the link page. Yes the new sys requires u to download a single file and link to it from your index page. The actual links themselves are being served from a totally diff domain. I Have ran a few progs on it to test the SEOness of it and passed all Test I have a reciprical dir that detects many diff forms of cheating back links such as no follow and even having the link written by jave or redirection/frames and many more. It didn't detect nothing. also if u look at the source code its clean links are printed nicly Oh i disabled the submit link *Were in Beta Test Now *To add a domain theres an admin that i just imput the domain and link info the sys them then auto writes the link into ALL pages whether they are on the localhost or not. so if jo bob downloaded it and put it on his i lovejobob.com website all the links would appear there 2 Feedback please? Like i mentioned before, Im trying to creat a high PR link exchange prog that the only person to benifit from it is the users. This meens no 3 way links and no buy ins like 99.9% of them have. This meens if u dont have a min PR4 site there is no way u can join. Dont care if u have a zillion $ "well actually hmm i would take it but i would share with everyone that this link is on lol" Dont be crule as im asking for feedback and advice to better everyone here. Im sure we would all like a quality system where it has been perfected by its users and not a comp looking for $$$ |
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| | #15 |
| Wish you were here! | It doesn't really matter. It's not really good to preserve all your outgoing links nor would you want to over expose it. Don't look at the short term because I've seen sites that shot up from PR 2 to PR 5 in one google update. Generally, I would exchange with sites with good content and minimum PR 1 as to avoid exchanging with sites that are banned. Regards, Edmund |
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