Google and its fight against webmasters

jumpenjuhosaphat · 05-01-2007, 04:17 PM

Okay, so it's not a fight like you might think. There has been an ongoing debate about whether or not paid links should be devalued by the search engines. Matt Cutts has written about it several times in his blog. I've been reading and following along with it periodically, but today, I got up enough nerve to actually respond and share my thoughts with the world. Can you read My response and tell me what your opinion is on the subject? I don't mind if the debate gets a bit heated, but refrain from name calling if you will.

Bagi Zoltán · 05-01-2007, 04:21 PM

Jumpen are you the DevilzOwn? I guess you are. I'm proud that I may know you Man!!! Well said.

And Matt grow in my eyes 'cause he approved your comment, he suppose to be a brave guy.

jumpenjuhosaphat · 05-01-2007, 04:33 PM

No, I'm not DevilzOwn. I guess he hasn't approved my message yet. Mine was a bit more toned down than that. I liked what he had to say though.

Here's what I wrote:

Quote:

Originally Posted by jumpenjuhosaphat on Matt Cutts Blog

It was mentioned above that paid links are reviewed links, and typically will lead to quality sites. A response was that some of those paid link reviewers don’t actually review the links, but only take the money are run. Here’s what I’ve noticed. Many of the sites that offer free links(those are the good kind in the eyes of Google) do the exact same thing. While one site owner goes through and spends his/her valuable time reviewing the site and verifying that it meets to their quality standard, another site owner might just accept the link without so much as clicking it first. Canada’s directory (I think it’s Canlinks or something along those lines) automatically accepts all links without even so much as a chance for a human to verify it.
I am in the process of building a link directory. I have every plan on charging to place links on my premium directory. Why? Because it takes time and effort to visit and review each site that is submitted, and I will not place links to low quality sites or sites that I don’t think are appropriate for my visitors on my site. Am I charging for links? No. I am charging for a review process that cuts into my daily schedule. If a site owner decides to purchase a link from me, I’ll know that 99.9% of the time, their intent will be to gain better Google PR, or result page rank. But the reason that 99.9% of site owners have this intention has nothing to do with me, and everything to do with all of the hype that has been put into Google’s search results and Google’s seemingly worthless PR values.
If Google wants to offer better results to it’s users, then Google needs to figure that out on their own, and stop trying to strong arm the websites that make up 95% of what Google is by telling them how to process their links(ie the nofollow attribute) or how they’re allowed to create revenue.
About the nofollow comment I just made. I think that nofollow is a great tool, but it has it’s place. The reason that Google came up with it in the first place was to combat spam. Now site owners are being told to use it on sites that they link to if the link is sponsored. Here’s a crazy idea, if a site doesn’t approve of a particular site, for whatever reason, then maybe they should just not link to that site in the first place.

gainc · 05-01-2007, 04:48 PM

Great job jump! hope it gets put up on matts comments. looking at the post of DevilzOwn you should have no problem being displayed. Thanks for speaking up.

Bagi Zoltán · 05-01-2007, 06:08 PM

The funniest thing around this "report paid links announcement" is the Google ads in the header. Which website's ads appears here at iWEBTOOL? Of course text link ads, promoted by google.

Alan · 05-01-2007, 07:48 PM

Good comment jump, and Matt's put it up.

itSourceRo · 05-01-2007, 08:15 PM

In my opinion once this started, there is no way to stop it, I bet Google servers crushed in last days because of the spam reports sent by competitors.
In Google eyes, it's just business, they know the human nature better than anyone and they will stop the link building trend.The latest PageRank update was so strange, the latest algo changes also were strange, webmasters started to be afraid of this.
No, Google doesn't fight against webmasters, they are protecting their business, link buying became so grow and they had to do something.
In a way they are right, PageRank means an editorial vote, but too bad they are doing this now,after years when big players who had the money could buy links, press releases, etc.Where was Google in the days when a small webmasters has no chance to compete ? They come now when they realised link buying is available to every webmaster since the big text link brokers became widely known.
Will they punish the big players too? Will see about that...

jumpenjuhosaphat · 05-01-2007, 08:32 PM

Link building and link buying were around long before Google, or any of the current search giants ever came to be. It's the nature of the web. If there were no such thing as a search engine, then how would we drive traffic to our sites? We would build and buy links. We would promote our site anyway that we could. Google thinks that that should change so that it's job of indexing quality sites is easier. They are trying to automate a process that can't be automated. They are doing it by strong arming the common little guys, as well as the bigger popular sites. There is no one that is out of Googles reach as far as Google is concerned. For them to come along, after the web was built and became what it is today, and try to recreate it for their benefit, that takes a lot of nerve. It's my very strong opinion that the best search results are the search results on website directories like aviva, alive, v7n, etc....Search engines are becoming a thing of the past, but Google doesn't want webmasters to know that sites like zimbio or stumble exist. They don't want us to know that as little as a single link on a high traffic webpage can produce more traffic to your site than Google ever could. They keep pressing us, telling us to build content...Where is there content? There content is your site, my site, and every other site on the internet. If you take their content away, they would be nobody. Search engines are masters of website scraping. Sure, they present it in a way that is informative and leads to the original source, but the point here is that without you and me and every other site on the internet, there would be no Google. If there were no Google, there would still be yours and my sites, as well as every other site on the internet. They try to make you believe that you need them more than they need you. They are full of it.

detoam · 05-02-2007, 01:00 PM

I have agreed with You and posted a comment there as well. I am thinking of making my directory only for paid linking. I know that it does not have many links inside yet and is very much new, but I turn away lots of links because they simply.. well bad. And I check all the links everyday whether they are still working or not. Which does take time and as directory will grow it will take more time to do so.

jumpenjuhosaphat · 05-02-2007, 01:07 PM

I'm looking forward to reading your responce.

I'd also like to add that when a person charges money for a link, they are more likely to actually look deeply at the site than a person who doesn't. It's also more likely that a directory that charges will also approve every paying site so that they don't lose the premium fee. There are pros and cons to both types of sites, but Google seems to think that the only cons are the ones with premium listings where money exchanges hands....Hmm, I wonder why that is. DevilzOwn mentioned Google trying to be the controlling factor over all paid links so that they can take a piece of the pie. I don't know if that's true or not, but the way that they view things from a one sided perspective, it sure looks like that's the case.

detoam · 05-02-2007, 01:21 PM

I agree all the way.
I am wondering whether they penalize them selves for placing paid links in their search results to the sites that either have nothing to do with the results or are simply spam sites? I use the McAfee SiteAdvisor tool and am always amazed at the number of the red flags in google search results featured links. And I often check those sites out and often they are either just scams, spam driven sites or in case of e-bay have really no relation to the search results. I don't know whether I am making sense or not, but I think that if Google takes money without actually taking responsibility for what they advertise why can't a small webmaster take the money for actually doing the work.
And no the excuse that they are a huge company and have no time to check all the links and advertiser out does not work for me. As it does prove that they are just hypocrites that demand high quality from others while not doing the same themselves.

jumpenjuhosaphat · 05-02-2007, 01:50 PM

Something that I just noticed. If you have Google search enabled on your site, Google has a live link in the search bar. The problem with this is this: Google doesn't like the idea of premium or purchased links. The reason is because they say that it tampers with their results. A link that is placed on a site for monetary gain cannot have the same value, because the reason the link is being placed is for monetary gain. Not to mention that the link wouldn't necessarily be relevant to the needs of the person visiting that page. Well, Google has proven themselves guilty of the very thing they are hounding everyone else about. Their link is being placed on sites that are typically placing the ad for monetary gain.

I decided that I would abide by Googles rules, and I urge each and every one of you to do the same if you use a Google search bar on your site. I edited the code and inserted rel="nofollow" into the link. I'd hate to have my sites links devalued because of a link I placed to make money....

detoam · 05-02-2007, 02:00 PM

Thank You for the tip. I am a member of the Google search group And I actually use one of their customized search bars, and it does have those sponsored links. I am going to change the code as well.

gkd_uk · 05-02-2007, 03:37 PM

jumpenjuhosaphat

That is a great post

Well done

05-01-2007, 04:17 PM	#1
jumpenjuhosaphat Forum Admin Contributor Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Denver Posts: 4,459	Google and its fight against webmasters Okay, so it's not a fight like you might think. There has been an ongoing debate about whether or not paid links should be devalued by the search engines. Matt Cutts has written about it several times in his blog. I've been reading and following along with it periodically, but today, I got up enough nerve to actually respond and share my thoughts with the world. Can you read My response and tell me what your opinion is on the subject? I don't mind if the debate gets a bit heated, but refrain from name calling if you will. __________________ Storage Sheds Lost Forum

05-01-2007, 04:21 PM	#2
Bagi Zoltán iWEBTOOL Moderator Contributor Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Hungary Posts: 1,854	Re: Google and its fight against webmasters Jumpen are you the DevilzOwn? I guess you are. I'm proud that I may know you Man!!! Well said. And Matt grow in my eyes 'cause he approved your comment, he suppose to be a brave guy. __________________ █ Time may come when you will need an excellent eCommerce shopping cart software █ free seo related web directory mérlegek Free shopping cart

05-01-2007, 04:48 PM	#4
gainc Newcomer Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Supplemental Ville Posts: 48	Re: Google and its fight against webmasters Great job jump! hope it gets put up on matts comments. looking at the post of DevilzOwn you should have no problem being displayed. Thanks for speaking up.

05-01-2007, 06:08 PM	#5
Bagi Zoltán iWEBTOOL Moderator Contributor Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Hungary Posts: 1,854	Re: Google and its fight against webmasters The funniest thing around this "report paid links announcement" is the Google ads in the header. Which website's ads appears here at iWEBTOOL? Of course text link ads, promoted by google. __________________ █ Time may come when you will need an excellent eCommerce shopping cart software █ free seo related web directory mérlegek Free shopping cart

05-01-2007, 07:48 PM	#6
Alan iWEBTOOL Moderator Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Ayr, Scotland Posts: 904	Re: Google and its fight against webmasters Good comment jump, and Matt's put it up. __________________ ahb Solutions Consultancy and Web Development Seen a good post - Give some reputation click on the

05-01-2007, 08:15 PM	#7
itSourceRo Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 66	Re: Google and its fight against webmasters In my opinion once this started, there is no way to stop it, I bet Google servers crushed in last days because of the spam reports sent by competitors. In Google eyes, it's just business, they know the human nature better than anyone and they will stop the link building trend.The latest PageRank update was so strange, the latest algo changes also were strange, webmasters started to be afraid of this. No, Google doesn't fight against webmasters, they are protecting their business, link buying became so grow and they had to do something. In a way they are right, PageRank means an editorial vote, but too bad they are doing this now,after years when big players who had the money could buy links, press releases, etc.Where was Google in the days when a small webmasters has no chance to compete ? They come now when they realised link buying is available to every webmaster since the big text link brokers became widely known. Will they punish the big players too? Will see about that... __________________ Affordable professional Website templates

05-01-2007, 08:32 PM	#8
jumpenjuhosaphat Forum Admin Contributor Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Denver Posts: 4,459	Re: Google and its fight against webmasters Link building and link buying were around long before Google, or any of the current search giants ever came to be. It's the nature of the web. If there were no such thing as a search engine, then how would we drive traffic to our sites? We would build and buy links. We would promote our site anyway that we could. Google thinks that that should change so that it's job of indexing quality sites is easier. They are trying to automate a process that can't be automated. They are doing it by strong arming the common little guys, as well as the bigger popular sites. There is no one that is out of Googles reach as far as Google is concerned. For them to come along, after the web was built and became what it is today, and try to recreate it for their benefit, that takes a lot of nerve. It's my very strong opinion that the best search results are the search results on website directories like aviva, alive, v7n, etc....Search engines are becoming a thing of the past, but Google doesn't want webmasters to know that sites like zimbio or stumble exist. They don't want us to know that as little as a single link on a high traffic webpage can produce more traffic to your site than Google ever could. They keep pressing us, telling us to build content...Where is there content? There content is your site, my site, and every other site on the internet. If you take their content away, they would be nobody. Search engines are masters of website scraping. Sure, they present it in a way that is informative and leads to the original source, but the point here is that without you and me and every other site on the internet, there would be no Google. If there were no Google, there would still be yours and my sites, as well as every other site on the internet. They try to make you believe that you need them more than they need you. They are full of it. __________________ Storage Sheds Lost Forum

05-02-2007, 01:00 PM	#9
detoam Junior Guru Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Canada Posts: 663	Re: Google and its fight against webmasters I have agreed with You and posted a comment there as well. I am thinking of making my directory only for paid linking. I know that it does not have many links inside yet and is very much new, but I turn away lots of links because they simply.. well bad. And I check all the links everyday whether they are still working or not. Which does take time and as directory will grow it will take more time to do so. __________________ Web hosting - with a choice of server location. Link trading

05-02-2007, 01:07 PM	#10
jumpenjuhosaphat Forum Admin Contributor Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Denver Posts: 4,459	Re: Google and its fight against webmasters I'm looking forward to reading your responce. I'd also like to add that when a person charges money for a link, they are more likely to actually look deeply at the site than a person who doesn't. It's also more likely that a directory that charges will also approve every paying site so that they don't lose the premium fee. There are pros and cons to both types of sites, but Google seems to think that the only cons are the ones with premium listings where money exchanges hands....Hmm, I wonder why that is. DevilzOwn mentioned Google trying to be the controlling factor over all paid links so that they can take a piece of the pie. I don't know if that's true or not, but the way that they view things from a one sided perspective, it sure looks like that's the case. __________________ Storage Sheds Lost Forum

05-02-2007, 01:21 PM	#11
detoam Junior Guru Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Canada Posts: 663	Re: Google and its fight against webmasters I agree all the way. I am wondering whether they penalize them selves for placing paid links in their search results to the sites that either have nothing to do with the results or are simply spam sites? I use the McAfee SiteAdvisor tool and am always amazed at the number of the red flags in google search results featured links. And I often check those sites out and often they are either just scams, spam driven sites or in case of e-bay have really no relation to the search results. I don't know whether I am making sense or not, but I think that if Google takes money without actually taking responsibility for what they advertise why can't a small webmaster take the money for actually doing the work. And no the excuse that they are a huge company and have no time to check all the links and advertiser out does not work for me. As it does prove that they are just hypocrites that demand high quality from others while not doing the same themselves. __________________ Web hosting - with a choice of server location. Link trading

05-02-2007, 01:50 PM	#12
jumpenjuhosaphat Forum Admin Contributor Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Denver Posts: 4,459	Re: Google and its fight against webmasters Something that I just noticed. If you have Google search enabled on your site, Google has a live link in the search bar. The problem with this is this: Google doesn't like the idea of premium or purchased links. The reason is because they say that it tampers with their results. A link that is placed on a site for monetary gain cannot have the same value, because the reason the link is being placed is for monetary gain. Not to mention that the link wouldn't necessarily be relevant to the needs of the person visiting that page. Well, Google has proven themselves guilty of the very thing they are hounding everyone else about. Their link is being placed on sites that are typically placing the ad for monetary gain. I decided that I would abide by Googles rules, and I urge each and every one of you to do the same if you use a Google search bar on your site. I edited the code and inserted rel="nofollow" into the link. I'd hate to have my sites links devalued because of a link I placed to make money.... __________________ Storage Sheds Lost Forum

05-02-2007, 02:00 PM	#13
detoam Junior Guru Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Canada Posts: 663	Re: Google and its fight against webmasters Thank You for the tip. I am a member of the Google search group And I actually use one of their customized search bars, and it does have those sponsored links. I am going to change the code as well. __________________ Web hosting - with a choice of server location. Link trading

05-02-2007, 03:37 PM	#14
gkd_uk Smurf Join Date: May 2007 Location: UK Posts: 24	Re: Google and its fight against webmasters jumpenjuhosaphat That is a great post Well done __________________ Link Bid l Web Directory l Games Paradise

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